------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Subject Date: Tue Mar 07 06:04:15 CST 1995 Message number: 1 Reply to message number: unavailable This is a base to discuss worldwide politics and international relations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: U.S. Role in Bosnia Date: Wed Nov 29 18:49:26 CST 1995 Message number: 2 Reply to message number: -1 DR> Just because one has the power and justification to do something doesn't m DR> it right. Clinton is acting within the letter of the law, but I don't think DR> is morally right to make a decision like this without first trying to rally DR> the nation behind him. Moral or not, it might not be common sense. And he is tiptoeing more gently on this issue than other presidents have. I have the same feeling that you expressed, that you thought that Clinton knew that a war would not work. For that reason, I am wondering if something else is going on that we aren't being too well informed about. One thing I heard was that Vlosovic (sp?), the Serb, was a big time leader in the Communist Party before the collapse. So Clinton may also be tiptoing around trying to avoid another cold war. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: U.S. Role in Bosnia Date: Sun Dec 03 16:02:20 CST 1995 Message number: 3 Reply to message number: 1 DR> Until all dies in Yugoslavia are willing to stop fighting of their own DR> accord, I don't see how peace can be enforced. The main reservations I have DR> come from the vague threat of arming the Muslims to "balance the scales" on DR> the troops pull out. F> This is my problem with it too. I have a lifetime of experience w F> Vietnam, Haiti, and other unstable places. It facinates me that people stil F> delude themselves to believe that we can go in, straighten it up, and when w F> leave, everything will be all fine. American machismo running wild once again in the far corners of the world. What bothers me is how people take the tragedy of Vietnam, scrape together one or two "lessons" and assume they have solved the problem. It's arrogant and stupid to assume that we learned all our lessons and can go forth and make the world safe for Capitalist democracy again. This Bosnia thing reminds me of one of my favorite taglines, "Fighting for peace is like fucking for chastity". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MAILER DAEMON To: All Subject: Clinton's war Date: Thu Dec 07 08:50:35 CST 1995 Message number: 4 Reply to message number: unavailable THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ________________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release November 30, 1995 STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT I have decided this evening to approve the Department of Defense appropriations bill. This legislation is vital to fund our national defense, so that the United States remains the strongest force for peace in the world. This bill provides for a strong national defense, supports our commitments to the quality of life of our forces and their families, maintains high military readiness, and funds investment programs necessary to modernize the equipment used by our combat forces. Continuing American global leadership is ensured by the support the bill provides for our forces. I made this decision because my Administration has reached agreement with Congressional leaders to provide funding, out of the funds contained in this bill, for the troop deployment and other efforts to secure peace in Bosnia. The pressing demands of peace and of our military service men and women compel my approval of this measure. I have expressed my strong concerns that this legislation contains excessive spending for projects that are not currently needed for our defense. I will forward to Congress rescission legislation that would eliminate funding for those projects, and I urge Congress to act on it. We should spend no more than we need to at a time when we are determined to balance the budget. I am also concerned that section 8117 of the Act contains certain reporting requirements that could materially interfere with or impede this country's ability to provide necessary support to another nation or international organization in connection with peacekeeping or humanitarian assistance activities otherwise authorized by law. I will interpret this provision consistent with my constitutional authority to conduct the foreign relations of the United States and my responsibilities as Commander in Chief. In addition, I remain very concerned about provisions of the Act that restrict service women and female dependents of military personnel from obtaining privately funded abortions in military facilities overseas, except in cases in which the mother's life is endangered or the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. In many countries, these U.S. facilities provide the only accessible, safe source for these medical services. My Administration is continuing discussions with the Congress on the remaining spending bills, in order to protect necessary priorities in education, the environment and law enforcement. Over the past several days we have made progress in good faith discussions with the leadership of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees to close the gap between us on these issues. The decision I am making tonight is consistent with our understanding that these discussions will continue with the goal of reaching a satisfactory conclusion as rapidly as possible. We should promptly complete this task, so there is no unnecessary shutdown of the government. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Mailer Daemon Subject: Re: Clinton's war Date: Sat Dec 09 10:25:47 CST 1995 Message number: 5 Reply to message number: 4 MD> I have decided this evening to approve the Department of MD> Defense appropriations bill. This legislation is vital to fund our MD> I made this decision because my Administration has reached MD> agreement with Congressional leaders to provide funding, out of the MD> funds contained in this bill, for the troop deployment and other MD> efforts to secure peace in Bosnia. Another dumb move, giving the warmongers what they want in exchange for funding for the troops in Bosnia. And I thought my confidence in Clinton couldn't get any lower ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Clinton's war Date: Sat Dec 09 14:02:35 CST 1995 Message number: 6 Reply to message number: 5 DR> Another dumb move, giving the warmongers what they want in exchange for DR> funding for the troops in Bosnia. DR> DR> And I thought my confidence in Clinton couldn't get any lower ... I don't have much "confidence" in him at all. I just take every step as I see it. I agree that this seems to be a dumb one. For one thing, the day after the address, I heard a couple of conservative types say the day after the address that there was *not* money designated for Bosnia in the bill. If Clinton was so sure that there was, why wasn't it written in before he signed the bill? I smell a rat. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LINDA ELSTON To: Everyone Subject: Bosnia Date: Mon Dec 25 13:31:54 CST 1995 Message number: 7 Reply to message number: unavailable There is much confusion about the conflict in Bosnia. I support the introduction of troops to stop the aggression of the Serbs. The Bosnians who want a multi-cultural state need aid. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LUCIUS SULLA To: Linda Elston Subject: Re: Bosnia Date: Tue Dec 26 11:34:52 CST 1995 Message number: 8 Reply to message number: 7 Why does it always have to be the U.S. who goes around as the worlds policemen? We pay for twice as much of the U.N. (25%) as any other country (Japan is second at 12.5%) and that is not to mention all the other stuff we pay for whenever something is happening in a place in which we have no interests. I believe a far better solution to the conflict is to simply sift the arms embargo and let them settle their problems themselves. Anyone who believes that this isn't more political than that stupid Gulf War has bought a bag of goods. Isn't it funny, just for starters, that the prez plans to pull the troops out just before election time, thereby making himself look hawkish for sending them therer in the first place and so presidential by puling them out at such an opportune moment. Just call me cynical, especially given this administrations track record with Somalia and Haiti. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Linda Elston Subject: Re: Bosnia Date: Wed Dec 27 05:53:26 CST 1995 Message number: 9 Reply to message number: 7 LE> There is much confusion about the conflict in Bosnia. I support the LE> introduction of troops to stop the aggression of the Serbs. The Bosnians LE> who want a multi-cultural state need aid. Unfortunately, it's never as one-sided as that. All parties in the conflict have done terribly evil things ... one side just had better weapons than the other and could get away with it. I don't think we should be jumping in until both sides are willing to set aside at least some of their weapons ... because until that happens, I don't think they *are ready for peace. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Lucius Sulla Subject: Re: Bosnia Date: Wed Dec 27 05:59:36 CST 1995 Message number: 10 Reply to message number: 8 LS> Why does it always have to be the U.S. who goes around as the worlds LS> policemen? The answer is simple enough ... if we want to be the world's Superpower and make our presence known the world over, we have to pay for the privilege. LS> We pay for twice as much of the U.N. (25%) as any other country LS> (Japan is second at 12.5%) and that is not to mention all the other stuff w We get what we pay for, and then some ... no other country in the world has as much influence over the U.N. as we do. LS> I believe a far better solution to the conflict is to simply sift the arms LS> embargo and let them settle their problems themselves. Since when is adding fuel to the fire ever helpful? I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it would do any good. LS> Anyone who believes LS> that this isn't more political than that stupid Gulf War has bought a bag o LS> goods. Isn't it funny, just for starters, that the prez plans to pull the LS> troops out just before election time, thereby making himself look hawkish f LS> sending them therer in the first place and so presidential by puling them o LS> at such an opportune moment. Of course it's political; no president *ever commits troops without thinking about how it will affect the next election. But within that analysis can lie some underlying principle or American interest. We have both in Bosnia ... the moral principle to stop war, and the national interest of keeping the oil-producing Muslim states happy. That being said, I think the troops were sent in too early ... if they should have been sent at all. This goes back to an idea I have about our huge military expenditures ... if the weapons and soldiers are sitting around, the next president is going to be that more likely to use them just because he can. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MAILER DAEMON To: All Subject: World Bank/IMF Date: Sun Jan 14 14:23:08 CST 1996 Message number: 11 Reply to message number: unavailable ------------------------- VIA WORKERS WORLD NEWS SERVICE REPRINTED FROM THE JAN. 4/11, 1996 ISSUE OF WORKERS WORLD NEWSPAPER ------------------------- THE IMF'S "CONTRACT ON THE WORLD" By Sue Bailey "Neoliberal capitalism carries injustices and inequity in its genetic code. Latin America is poor, and its people are poor because they have been exploited by the rich." Who said this? Some might guess Fidel Castro. No, these words came from Honduran Archbishop Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga at the Latin American Bishops Council last May. Why were the bishops talking about neoliberal capitalism? Because the number of people living in poverty in Latin America has nearly doubled since 1980--reaching an alarming 200 million people, 40 percent of the population. Neoliberalism or new liberalism--the brainchild of Milton Friedman, F. Von Hayec and the Chicago school of bourgeois economists--asserts that the economic crises of the 1970s was due to "excessive government intervention in economic affairs." Neoliberalism advocates the survival only of those companies that set up rules to maximize profits with no obligation to the environment, health-and-safety standards, or provisions to assure job security and a living wage. The Contract with America and downsizing are neoliberalism. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank implement neoliberal policies around the globe, especially in the developing countries. For instance, in order to borrow money, a country has to develop an IMF-approved Structural Adjustment Program, or SAP. For countries representing 80 percent of the world's population, the SAP has become the dominant economic policy- -with consequences that are all too predictable. In Zimbabwe, SAP is called "Suffering for African People." And it is. For developing countries, SAP is the late 20th-century version of sharecropping. Once entangled with the IMF, it's almost impossible to get out of debt. Independence is sacrificed. For instance, in Africa, south of the Sahara--where 18 of the 20 poorest countries are located--the foreign debt has tripled since 1980 to $180 billion. The debt burden was 110 percent of the region's Gross National Product in 1991. Just to service the debt costs $10 billion each year--four times the amount spent on health and education. For the entire Third World, the debt went from $100 billion in 1970 to $1,350 billion--or $1.3 trillion--by 1990. The IMF and World Bank, which control vast amounts of finance capital, agree to lend money to cash-starved developing countries only in exchange for a thorough reorganization of that country's economic, political and police structures. The loan, which is needed for industrial development, is actually a noose. As Cuban President Fidel Castro said at the Fourth Latin American and Caribbean meeting last January, they [the U.S. and Western bankers] want to be the owners of the principal industries with which they would undermine the independence of developing countries--not only actually, but officially. Fidel is so right. SAPs wrench open the economies to imperialist takeover; divert money from vital social programs for interest payments to foreign banks; destroy indigenous agriculture by gearing the production of foodstuffs for export rather than consumption; and create cheap labor pools for multinationals that manufacture goods for export to the home country. SAPs also destroy national industries by first privatizing and then selling them to foreign investors. As the United Nations Development Program admitted in a 1993 memo, privatization has been a "garage sale" to the largest transnational corporations. The results have been devastating. In Peru, massive privatization took the jobs of 300,000 workers. In Poland, the transportation system has been sold, and fares have risen 61 percent. Nine out of 10 of the largest privatized enterprises in Hungary were purchased outright by U.S. and other transnational corporations. In Mexico, over 1,000 state- owned enterprises were sold. These are life-and-death issues of our class. [Based on a talk given at the Dec. 2-3, 1995, Workers World Party national conference.] - END - (Copyright Workers World Service: Permission to reprint granted if source is cited. For more information contact Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011; via e-mail: ww@wwpublish.com. For subscription info send message to: ww-info@wwpublish.com.) -!- ! Origin: helix.uucp =FidoNet/Internet= Seattle 206.783.6368 (1:343/70) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THROCKMORTON To: ALL Subject: Chechenya Date: Fri Jan 19 12:42:15 CST 1996 Message number: 12 Reply to message number: unavailable I read in the papers that Russia is refusing to negotiate for the release of the hostages that the Chechenyan rebels have taken. How do other feel about this? I have mixed feelings. It is going to be rough on the hostages. The Russian government has stated that they don't expect to get the hostages back alive. But if this happens a couple of times maybe rebels/terrorists will start to realize that hostage taking is a counter productive idea that doesn't work. --- ž OLX 1.53 ž He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Throckmorton Subject: Re: Chechenya Date: Sat Jan 20 09:52:23 CST 1996 Message number: 13 Reply to message number: 12 T> I have mixed feelings. It is going to be rough on the hostages. The T> Russian government has stated that they don't expect to get the hostages T> back alive. As I write this is is a done deal. They mowed down that city entirely, including the hostages and the terrorists. There seems to be some question how many hostages were actually killed though. The last I heard, there were originally 84, they killed 16 and recovered 84. T> rebels/terrorists will start to realize that hostage taking is a counter T> productive idea that doesn't work. True, and there is a need for this. But I have an uncomfortable felling that it was also Yeltsin flexing his muscles to show what a strong and capable leader he is just before the election. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Throckmorton Subject: Re: Chechenya Date: Sat Jan 20 15:39:48 CST 1996 Message number: 14 Reply to message number: 12 T> I read in the papers that Russia is refusing to negotiate for the T> release of the hostages that the Chechenyan rebels have taken. How do T> other feel about this? I guess it's just a case of moral relativism. Yeltsin and the Russians are trying to force an oil-rich state to stay in the Russian Federation against their will, and those people are trying to fight for their right to self-determination. I guess I can't really blame them for fighting back, even if they are using dastardly means. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ZWEITER HOYF To: Froggy Subject: Re: Chechenya Date: Mon Jan 22 11:20:23 CST 1996 Message number: 15 Reply to message number: unavailable F> True, and there is a need for this. But I have an uncomfortable F> felling that it was also Yeltsin flexing his muscles to show what a strong F> capable leader he is just before the election. F> And it is a case of meeting the "New boss, same as the old boss." The Russians have a history of oppressive governments from the Rus Vikings that settled along the Volga circa 1100 A.D. thru the years of the Czars and the Soviets. They don't seem to know how to govern themselves in a manner tha doesn't include repression. Yeltsin carries Democracy in Russia, he is the face that makes it possible. Hardly counts as a democracy or even a real republic, does it. Yeltsin simply declared that the hostages no longer "exist." Send the planes and the tanks, Gospodin. Sorry, Pete Townsend, we will get fooled again, and again. --- ž NFX V1.2 [Freeware] Graphic Offline Mail Reader. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: All Subject: Ralph Nader Date: Mon Feb 12 02:48:48 CST 1996 Message number: 16 Reply to message number: unavailable Ralph Nader is running for President under the Green Party banner. He made a cery interesting suggestion on the Donohue show this morning -- he suggested that on ballots, there should be a binding "None of the above." If "None of the above gets the majority of the votes, the election is cancelled, the candidates are sent packing, and you start all over. Do I haer the sound of thousands of pencil being sharpened? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Mon Feb 12 15:38:51 CST 1996 Message number: 17 Reply to message number: 16 F> Ralph Nader is running for President under the Green Party banner. F> He made a cery interesting suggestion on the Donohue show this morning -- he F> suggested that on ballots, there should be a binding "None of the above." I F> "None of the above gets the majority of the votes, the election is cancelled F> the candidates are sent packing, and you start all over. Do I haer the soun F> of thousands of pencil being sharpened? I've heard the idea before, and it's an excellent one. In this way, Russia is more Democratic than we are now. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Nader on some things though. For example, referrendums have been abused in California and some other states by people (ala Forbes) who can buy consent. They sound like a good idea, but political reality isn't kind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Mon Feb 12 17:42:26 CST 1996 Message number: 18 Reply to message number: 17 DR> I don't know if I necessarily agree with Nader on some things though. For DR> example, referrendums have been abused in California and some other states DR> people (ala Forbes) who can buy consent. They sound like a good idea, but DR> political reality isn't kind. The problem is that it is not likely that any of us will ever find a candidate we agree with totally. If we do, he would probably be unelectable because he/she also has to get the votes of other people who think very differently than we do. This is one of the problems with Nader. He may have very good ideas, but other people don't care about them. They only see him as a tree-hugger and will not take him seriously. As I type this, I am watching Nightline announcing that Forbes lost Iowa. But all the money he spent is now strengthening the economy. Maybe we should give up on taxing the rich and force them all to run for president. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Wed Feb 14 14:09:22 CST 1996 Message number: 19 Reply to message number: 18 F> As I type this, I am watching Nightline announcing that Forbes lost F> Iowa. But all the money he spent is now strengthening the economy. Maybe w F> should give up on taxing the rich and force them all to run for president. Yeah, the money he spent on the local media was a boon. Off the top of my head, I'd guess that 90% of it might have gone to large media conglomerates or stations owned by large media conglomerates. The real kicker is "America First" Pat Buchanan. He doesn't stand a chance, of course ... but it would be interesting if he did. He'd certainly throw a few monkey wrenches into the works. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Wed Feb 14 14:38:06 CST 1996 Message number: 20 Reply to message number: 19 DR> Yeah, the money he spent on the local media was a boon. Off the top of my DR> head, I'd guess that 90% of it might have gone to large media conglomerates DR> stations owned by large media conglomerates. DR> True, but there are also other campaign expenses. Local companies recieve some business for things like gasoline, wood for lawn signs, printed materials, campaign buttons and bumper stickers, office supplies, etc. DR> The real kicker is "America First" Pat Buchanan. He doesn't stand a chance DR> of course ... but it would be interesting if he did. He'd certainly throw a DR> few monkey wrenches into the works. Anything to throw some interest into the brew would be welcome. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Thu Feb 15 13:02:35 CST 1996 Message number: 21 Reply to message number: 20 DR> The real kicker is "America First" Pat Buchanan. He doesn't stand a chance DR> of course ... but it would be interesting if he did. He'd certainly throw a DR> few monkey wrenches into the works. F> Anything to throw some interest into the brew would be welcome. If he could get past the traditionalists in the Republican party and actually got nominated, I honestly think he'd beat Clinton. His appeal is very broad, and if it's a question of "who's done more for the working man", Buchanan will win hands down. He's got the anti-big business, anti-immigrant, socially Victorian rhetoric down and Clinton wouldn't stand a chance. I think people are so damned scared of losing "The American Dream" they'd be willing to elect a flawed man like Buchanan if he promised to make it all better. His flaws become his strength, in a roundabout way. Of course, it will never happen. Unless it's *all rhetoric, the business side of the Republican party wouldn't stand for it and would bolt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Thu Feb 15 21:44:11 CST 1996 Message number: 22 Reply to message number: 21 DR> If he could get past the traditionalists in the Republican party and DR> actually got nominated, I honestly think he'd beat Clinton. His appeal is v He *is* one of the traditionalists in the republican party. There are others, like an outspoken pro-choice group, who will stomp him out. DR> Buchanan will win hands down. He's got the anti-big business, anti-immigran DR> socially Victorian rhetoric down and Clinton wouldn't stand a chance. Don't underestimate Clinton's ability to turn words, too. In many ways, that is what he does best. DR> I think people are so damned scared of losing "The American Dream" they'd DR> be willing to elect a flawed man like Buchanan if he promised to make it al DR> better. His flaws become his strength, in a roundabout way. DR> Exactly right. A lot would depend on the media and the campaign promos of both candidates. Some of us are looking for candidates who take a high road and discuss real issues. Other people are strongly influenced by 30 second sound bytes, especially if they are of a negative or sensationalist nature. In Minnesota, Todd Judd and Rudy Boscwitz discovered that they didn't work here. Maybe we can keep it up. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Fri Feb 16 01:33:08 CST 1996 Message number: 23 Reply to message number: 22 DR> If he could get past the traditionalists in the Republican party and DR> actually got nominated, I honestly think he'd beat Clinton. His appeal is v F> He *is* one of the traditionalists in the republican party. There F> are others, like an outspoken pro-choice group, who will stomp him out. From one end ... the social conservatives, not the business-orinted conservatives. He thrills one end, and scares the hell out of the other. DR> Buchanan will win hands down. He's got the anti-big business, anti-immigran DR> socially Victorian rhetoric down and Clinton wouldn't stand a chance. F> Don't underestimate Clinton's ability to turn words, too. In many F> ways, that is what he does best. Tried it, did it, been there :) The old saying comes to mind, paraphrased: with a choice between a real Conservative and a conservative democrat, between a "real populist" and a pseudo-pupulist, people will go for th real thing every time. F> nature. In Minnesota, Todd Judd and Rudy Boscwitz discovered that they didn F> work here. Maybe we can keep it up. Jude lost by a few thousand votes, sadly enough. And now Luther is gathering a huge "war chest" for this year's election. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Ralph Nader Date: Fri Feb 16 04:57:39 CST 1996 Message number: 24 Reply to message number: 23 DR> From one end ... the social conservatives, not the business-orinted DR> conservatives. He thrills one end, and scares the hell out of the other. DR> That exists in both parties. There is also a business contingent of the DFL party that John Marty scared the hel out of. F> Don't underestimate Clinton's ability to turn words, too. In many F> ways, that is what he does best. DR> DR> Tried it, did it, been there :) DR> The problem is to identify and run someone better. You think that organizing this action group is frustrating . . .? DR> Jude lost by a few thousand votes, sadly enough. And now Luther is gatheri DR> a huge "war chest" for this year's election. The point was that both Jude and Boscwitch lied in their campaign advertising and didn't get away with it. Jude even got prosecuted for it. No candidate can win without a huge "war chest." That is something I think we need to change. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GENERIC To: All Subject: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Sun Feb 25 18:22:59 CST 1996 Message number: 25 Reply to message number: unavailable I have a dilema. I'm doing a paper for my Intro to Mac class (yawn) about utilizing the Internet in attaining a peaceful world community. Unfortunately, There is very little written about the subject, (actually nothing that I could find.) I'm trying to get people's opinions on the subject, and I posted on Bitstream Underground, but mainly what I've gotten so far is people bitching about the telecomm bill, and one guy yelling about censorship and then railing on "Those goddamn Hindus!", (so much for world peace). Mainly what I'm looking for is How you think that it could be utilized now, as it stands. What do you think needs to be changed about the Internet to make this feasable? What, (if any) role do you think various governments should play in this? And just some general comments about what you think about this? Any other questions that you think I should be asking? Any articles and/or books that I should check out on this subject? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Generic ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Generic Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Mon Feb 26 01:53:08 CST 1996 Message number: 26 Reply to message number: 25 G> Bitstream Underground, but mainly what I've gotten so far is people bitching G> about the telecomm bill, and one guy yelling about censorship and then raili G> on "Those goddamn Hindus!", (so much for world peace). Mainly what I'm looki I don't believe that the Internet is a believable vehicle to bring about world peace. You have written one of the reasons why. Cyber is impersonal and will not necessarily bring closer love and understanding between people. It is only a communication tool and cannot control what is communicated on it. It can provide pages where people with similar ideas can mingle and discuss their options. But there can be one page for pacifists, another page for people who hate Hindus, and another about building bombs. What will bring about world peace is on the local level and in people's hearts. As long as people cannot get along with their next door neighbors, there is no mystery about why India cannot get along with Pakistan. G> any) role do you think various governments should play in this? And just som G> general comments about what you think about this? Any other questions that y I think that governments should stay out of the Internet entirely, except as a crime control measure. In this country we are having a recent seige of burning black churches. It is reasonable for the police to see people talking about it on the Internet and show up at the church to arrest people. It is NOT reasonable to arrest people for talking about it or to in any way interfere with the conversation. The Constitution specifically protects free speech, and speaking is not a crime. Action makes crimes. A person can talk about burning churches all he wants, but is not guilty of a crime until he shows up at the church with gasoline and matches. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Generic Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Tue Feb 27 15:46:45 CST 1996 Message number: 27 Reply to message number: 25 G> I have a dilema. I'm doing a paper for my Intro to Mac class (yawn) about G> utilizing the Internet in attaining a peaceful world community. Unfortunatel Dude, a MAC class? I hope that you didnt PICK that class :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LUCIUS SULLA To: Generic Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Wed Feb 28 13:01:28 CST 1996 Message number: 28 Reply to message number: 27 For those who use a MAC! We salute you! I HIGHLY recommend reading the last page column in this months issue of "Wired" magazine. It deals with some of the nationalism that the president of France was spewing in regards to the Net being the harbinger of Cultural Imperialism and the spread of the English language to the decay and detriment of all things "Frainch." The column (I cannot remember the authors name--I believe it's something like Nepont, silly of me, as I just read the damn thing at work this afternoon) goes on to refute how this the net and it's inherent connectivity will do anything but enhance relationships and the flow of ideas, so that's my recommendation. Semper Vale! Lucius Cornelius Sulla ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Generic Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Wed Feb 28 14:55:45 CST 1996 Message number: 29 Reply to message number: 25 G> I have a dilema. I'm doing a paper for my Intro to Mac class (yawn) about G> utilizing the Internet in attaining a peaceful world community. I don't think it will be as feasible as some would like, for a few reasons. 1) The problem of language, and the related problem of some nation's fear of cultural homogenization. 2) The Internet is mainly comprised of higher-class people from higher-class nations; many, many people are being excluded from this global community, most notbaly the continent of Africa. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Lucius Sulla Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Wed Feb 28 14:58:08 CST 1996 Message number: 30 Reply to message number: 28 LS> For those who use a MAC! We salute you! I believe that owning a Macintosh is grounds for deletion, but I'll let you off with a warning this time. Get a Hewlett-Packard or else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Lucius Sulla Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Thu Feb 29 13:10:09 CST 1996 Message number: 31 Reply to message number: 28 LS> For those who use a MAC! We salute you! Don't tell me YOU use a mac!?!?! Figures. Mac's BITE and I will do ALL to take out the macian empire. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Thu Feb 29 13:12:43 CST 1996 Message number: 32 Reply to message number: 30 DR> Get a Hewlett-Packard or else. What about ACER? They are kewl too! Pakard Bell though... Not so good. HPz are kewl. -=>StarŸox<=- BTW, hay you MAC'n'trash uzerz, bet you can't see that CHR 159! if you can, youz got a good terminal. KiLL THe MaCZ(aND aoL iF YoU GeT aRouND To iT, OH aND BiLL GaTeS FoR THaT 640K THiNG :) ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LUCIUS SULLA To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Fri Mar 01 12:28:09 CST 1996 Message number: 33 Reply to message number: 30 DR> I believe that owning a Macintosh is grounds for deletion, but I'll let yo DR> off with a warning this time. DR> DR> Get a Hewlett-Packard or else. Or else what? You'll delete me? I challenge you to a contest of who can get more actual work done with our respective computers. Cordially LCS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Lucius Sulla Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Fri Mar 01 16:14:27 CST 1996 Message number: 34 Reply to message number: 33 LS> Or else what? You'll delete me? LS> I challenge you to a contest of who can get more actual work done with our LS> respective computers. Ohkay, ever heard of sarcasam (The OR ELSE PART) (Then again... he is kinda STRANGE :) ) What kinda puter do you got? a MAC :) I bet i could do more work on a apple IIE than you on a SuperComputer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Lucius Sulla Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm such a hippie) Date: Fri Mar 01 18:54:49 CST 1996 Message number: 35 Reply to message number: 33 DR> Get a Hewlett-Packard or else. LS> Or else what? You'll delete me? Naw, I take that back. Owning a Mac is punishment enough. LS> I challenge you to a contest of who can get more actual work done with our LS> respective computers. All work and no play makes Jack ...er, Lucius a dull boy. In all seriousness, there's nothing wrong with a Mac as long as you know that it comes with both advantages and limitations compared to a similarly priced IBM. For what it's worth, I'd never be able to do the same thing I do now on a Mac, simply because they're abysmally hard to upgrade a piece at a time and sluggish multitaskers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CAPTAIN TEEBO To: DAEDALUS RISING Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Sat Mar 02 04:53:57 CST 1996 Message number: 36 Reply to message number: unavailable DR> Get a Hewlett-Packard or else. If you want to be extra special, get a SGI. Higher access w/ unlimited ratios *teebo ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: China and the East Date: Mon Mar 11 06:27:45 CST 1996 Message number: 37 Reply to message number: unavailable With China in the news lately, it reminded me that no one's been talking much about the monolithic Asian wave that was supposed to be taking over the world economy. Remember the fears about Japan "buying everything"? What's your take on the countries of Eastern Asia, and what's going to happen with them in the future? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GENERIC To: STARFOX Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Mon Mar 11 06:35:38 CST 1996 Message number: 38 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Starfox to Generic <=- G> I have a dilema. I'm doing a paper for my Intro to Mac class (yawn) about G> utilizing the Internet in attaining a peaceful world community. Unfortunat St> Dude, a MAC class? I hope that you didnt PICK that class :) Do you really think that I would PICK something like that? I don't need help sleeping THAT much. I'll listed to soft music, or take drugs or something before I relied on that. :) ... Love peace. Or I'll KILL you!!! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GENERIC To: LUCIUS SULLA Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Mon Mar 11 06:35:39 CST 1996 Message number: 39 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Lucius Sulla to Generic <=- LS> For those who use a MAC! We salute you! LS> I HIGHLY recommend reading the last page column in this months issue LS> of "Wired" magazine. It deals with some of the nationalism that the LS> president of France was spewing in regards to the Net being the LS> harbinger of Cultural Imperialism and the spread of the English LS> language to the decay and detriment of all things "Frainch." The LS> column (I cannot remember the authors name--I believe it's something LS> like Nepont, silly of me, as I just read the damn thing at work this LS> afternoon) goes on to refute how this the net and it's inherent LS> connectivity will do anything but enhance relationships and the flow LS> of ideas, so that's my recommendation. LS> Semper Vale! LS> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Well, unfortunately, I finished the paper before I read your message, but I'm still very interested in the topic so, I'll most definitely check out the article. Chirac is such an idiot. I hope they get rid of him soon. BLA! Generic ... Love peace. Or I'll KILL you!!! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GENERIC To: DAEDALUS RISING Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Mon Mar 11 06:35:40 CST 1996 Message number: 40 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daedalus Rising to Generic <=- G> I have a dilema. I'm doing a paper for my Intro to Mac class (yawn) about G> utilizing the Internet in attaining a peaceful world community. DR> I don't think it will be as feasible as some would like, for a few DR> reasons. DR> 1) The problem of language, and the related problem of some nation's DR> fear of cultural homogenization. DR> 2) The Internet is mainly comprised of higher-class people from DR> higher-class nations; many, many people are being excluded from DR> this global community, most notbaly the continent of Africa. But couldn't programs be written to deal with the language barrier? Why would a culture necessarily have to be homogenized? My theory is that there are Billion of different people out there, with billions of different experiences. With something like the Internet, everyone could have access to all of those experiences. You wouldn't have to be homogenized, just aware. A lot of world problems could be solved if people were aware. And then in theory this would move us to a higher state of conciousness, since we would now be concious of everyone else's experience as well, and in this it would bring a greater understanding of the human experience. The human race is at one level now, and I believe with the proper circumstances, we could all be brought to a higher peaceful level. As for the deal with people getting left out, I covered this in my paper. I mentioned that some people can't even get phone access, let alone Internet. But throughout time, this could be remedied. I'm not sure exactly how yet, but I believe that it could be done. Tonight I heard about a group of 100,000 people that donated time and energy to hooking schools in CA with the Internet Couldn't this be done on a grander scale? If everyone in developed nations reached this higher level, then they could, and would WANT to help those in underdelveloped nations achieve the same goal. Besides, there are a lot of people in "underdeveloped" nations that are already AT a that higher level. We in the "developed" nations are too far removed to understand, and the internet could help bridge that gap. It's late and I'm babbling. I'll stop now. I hope this makes some sense when I and everyone else reads it later. :) Generic ... Reaching for a lower level of conciousness....sleep. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THE EMPEROR To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: China and the East Date: Mon Mar 11 19:35:34 CST 1996 Message number: 41 Reply to message number: 37 DR> economy. Remember the fears about Japan "buying everything"? Well I don't know much about China (who does?) but I do know some things about Japan. Japan scares the ba'Jesus out of me!!! The Japanese have alot of resentment against us. Their grandparents and some parents survived WWII. It is still so fresh in their memories. They are so very focused on what they want. They are incredible! They are the leaders at corperate warfare and they already basically own the computer industry. They have a monopoly on the memory market and how knows whats next. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Generic Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Tue Mar 12 14:50:10 CST 1996 Message number: 42 Reply to message number: 40 G> But couldn't programs be written to deal with the language barrier? Translation is not a logical process, because language itself is highly illogical and subjective. G> experiences. With something like the Internet, everyone could have access G> to all of those experiences. You wouldn't have to be homogenized, just The best proof of this is the Chinese government trying to build a firewall around the Internet to control what goes in and out of China. They do the same for movies and other mass-media entertainment. It is a threat, because it is not Cinese culture. It's different, and it *will* rub off on at least some Chinse people. Over time, the culture will become more homogonized ... West influencing East, East influencing West. The Chinese want to prevent this. G> people that donated time and energy to hooking schools in CA with the Intern G> Couldn't this be done on a grander scale? If everyone in developed nations G> reached this higher level, then they could, and would WANT to help those G> in underdelveloped nations achieve the same goal. Besides, there are a lot In a perfect world, yes. But in this world, no. There is no profit to be made by hooking rural America or Africa up with technology. As much as it might make sense in the long term to create more potential customers, the international finance community is dominated by short-term oriented laizes-faire American capitalists who tend to view the developing world as a pool of resources. It's interesting to note that the one major exception to this laisez faire economic development, the Far East, is now booming economically. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: The Emperor Subject: Re: China and the East Date: Tue Mar 12 14:54:30 CST 1996 Message number: 43 Reply to message number: 41 TE> Well I don't know much about China (who does?) but I do know some things ab TE> Japan. China: Land of One Billion potential Pepsi drinkers. TE> The Japanese have alot of resentment against us. Their grandparents and TE> some parents survived WWII. It is still so fresh in their memories. The same could be said about America. The very suggestion that Japan may not have been entirely to blame for starting WW II results in heated debate, and asian-related racism is still strong amoung many. TE> They are so very focused on what they want. They are incredible! TE> They are the leaders at corperate warfare and they already basically own th TE> computer industry. They have a monopoly on the memory market and how knows TE> whats next. I don't think that Japan is as big of a threat as some people make it out to be, but what I find interesting is trying to figure out *why* their economy is doing so well. After all, the only resource they have a lot of is manpower. As I intimated in the last message, I think a lot of it has to do with their public-corporate cooperation and ability to work for long-term economic development. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GENERIC To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Tue Mar 12 19:29:18 CST 1996 Message number: 44 Reply to message number: 42 DR> The best proof of this is the Chinese government trying to build a firewal DR> around the Internet to control what goes in and out of China. They do the s DR> for movies and other mass-media entertainment. It is a threat, because it i DR> not Cinese culture. It's different, and it *will* rub off on at least some DR> Chinse people. Over time, the culture will become more homogonized ... West DR> influencing East, East influencing West. The Chinese want to prevent this. But cant' you be "influenced" by another culture withouth becomeing "homogenized"? Cultures have influenced each other since the beginning of time. The Chinese certainly aren't the same place they were hundreds of years ago. And they won't be the same a hundred years from now. Cultures influence each other, internet or no internet. Through trade, TV and other media, and just through day to day dealings with other countries. The Internet won't make it any more or any less so. And as they'll be influenced by us, we'll be influenced by them. That's the beauty in this. Its win/win. :) I'm know I'm being an idealistic hippie-child, but dammit, I don't care! :) Someone has to, and maybe I can convince a whole bunch of other people that its a good idea, and then they'll call me REAListic. :-P Generic (Gleefully happy in his ideals and isms) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Generic Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Thu Mar 14 13:03:09 CST 1996 Message number: 45 Reply to message number: 44 DR> Chinse people. Over time, the culture will become more homogonized ... West DR> influencing East, East influencing West. The Chinese want to prevent this. G> But cant' you be "influenced" by another culture withouth becomeing G> "homogenized"? Certainly, in the short term. But any differences between the two cultures will grow less significant over time. As flawed as many of their policies are, the Chinese government is planning for the long-term future and does not intend to become another Hollywood colony. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GENERIC To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: World Peace :) (I'm s Date: Sun Mar 17 08:58:52 CST 1996 Message number: 46 Reply to message number: 45 DR> Certainly, in the short term. But any differences between the two cultures DR> will grow less significant over time. As flawed as many of their policies DR> are, the Chinese government is planning for the long-term future and does n DR> intend to become another Hollywood colony. But what if we became more like them? Or we met somewhere in the middle? Isn't that what settling differences non-violently all about? Metting somewhere in the middle? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MAILER DAEMON To: All Subject: Ban the Olympics Date: Mon May 27 15:07:08 CDT 1996 Message number: 47 Reply to message number: unavailable Ten reasons to oppose all Olympic Games - By Brian Martin There are lots of reasons to oppose Olympic Games - not just the 1996 or 2000 games, but all of them. A brief outline is given here. The points summarise ideas analysed in far more depth in various studies. Unfortunately, critical analyses of the Olympics receive virtually no attention compared to the massive governmental and commercial promotion. No criticism is intended here of athletes and their supporters. Nor do I claim that there is no value at all in Olympic Games. Rather, my argument is that there are such big problems that it would be better to abolish them altogether. 1. Nationalism. The games are an arena for power politics. The 1936 Berlin Games were used by the Nazi regime to bolster its prestige. The US government led a boycott of the 1980 Moscow Games to protest against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Soviet government led a boycott of the 1984 Los Angeles Games largely as a pay-back. The usual rhetoric is that sports and politics don't mix, but the Olympics have been political from the beginning. Politics is involved in decisions about hosting the games and about which countries participate. Boycotts are used to exert political pressure. It is precisely because sports seem to be neutral that it is so effective to use them for political purposes. Governments, seeking the prestige of Olympic victories, organise the training of elite athletes. Athletes can't participate if their country doesn't. Competition between athletes is turned into competition between states. Victories by individuals and teams are treated as national victories, symbolised by flags and anthems. Media coverage is often biased towards the country's own athletes, reflecting and reinforcing nationalism. The International Olympic Committee (IOC), a highly undemocratic organisation of representatives from member countries, is a vehicle for international political struggle. Hosting the games is seen as promoting national prestige. 2. Commercialism. Corporate interests penetrate the Olympics through sponsorship of the games themselves and sponsorship and use of athletes for commercial purposes. The media foster the games as a giant spectacle, promoting commercialisation. Visible athletes can cash in on lucrative endorsements. Sporting success becomes a means of selling products, gold medals a way for athletes and commercial sponsors to make money. Commercialism and nationalism have gradually turned the Olympics into an enterprise only for full-time athletes, professionals in reality if not in name. The Olympics have become big business mainly through television. The games are a marketer's dream for reaching a global audience. Through massive TV revenues, the IOC has become a major commercial enterprise itself, operating like a transnational corporation. Its decisions are increasingly dictated by money flows. 3. Competition. The games are exclusively competitive. Most competitors are ultimately losers. The focus is on a few top winners, whereas there are far more who struggle for years only to fail, sometimes due to bad luck or the machinations of sporting bodies. Competition with high stakes - Olympic medals - means that the aim becomes victory at all costs. The pressure to win encourages illicit drug use, secrecy in training techniques, attempts at psychological manipulation of opponents and training and competing while injured. Forms of physical activity that are more participatory and cooperative are marginalised. Sport can be satisfying and beneficial, both physically and mentally, for nearly everyone in the community, but this can occur only when the primary goal is participation, not victory in competition. The obsession with Olympic success undermines cooperative, participatory sport. 4. Male domination. From the beginning, the games have always had many more men than women as participants, coaches and officials. Female athletes have received less funding and have fewer sports in which to compete. Many national Olympic committees have no women members and send no women to the games. The events included in the games are mostly ones that give men an advantage, notably sports emphasising strength and speed. For example, most running and swimming events are over in a matter of seconds or minutes. Women are already much closer if not superior to men in ultra-endurance events, such as marathon swimming, but shorter events predominate in the Olympics. Similarly, events emphasising precision and skill rather than strength would give women a better chance. Instead, women are expected to adapt to male sports. Male domination in the Olympic movement reflects and reinforces the predominance of men in the sports that receive the greatest attention in most countries. 5. Racism. The games were set up by European elites and built on western sports. Through the worldwide publicity for the Olympics and the competition for national glory, more and more of these sports have been adopted in countries where they had no popular following. The IOC is dominated by western perspectives on sport and appears to take no notice of non-western styles and traditions. 6. Violence. Many sports, such as boxing, archery and the javelin, are modelled on skills for war. A number of sports involve violence themselves, including ostensibly ``non-contact'' sports such as basketball. The intense competition and partisanship linked to sports often cause spectators to become aggressive. On a number of occasions, sporting events have been the triggers for actual wars. The Olympics were set up to foster peace and harmony. Instead, they have provided another arena for the continuation of violence between individuals and between states. The awarding of the 1896 games to Athens stimulated Greek nationalism, leading to a war with Turkey in 1897. The Olympic movement is powerless to turn its original goal into reality. 7. Celebrity. The games foster a culture of celebrity that focuses on stars at the expense of non-elite participants. Yet the combination of specialist events plus a premium on winning means that Olympic athletes are often not suitable role models. They may develop certain skills and strengths at the expense of overall good health, compete at the expense of other commitments or value personal success more than competing fairly or helping others. This is a symptom of an elite competition in which victors are glamorised by the media. 8. Technological intensification. Olympic-level competitions are increasingly a struggle between applications of advanced science and technology to equipment, training, psychology, and drugs (legal and illegal). In cycling, for example, victory goes as much to the swiftest bike as to the best cyclist. Bodies are treated like machines, as means to the goal of winning. Sophisticated scientific and technological interventions mean that individuals and countries without the most advanced facilities are handicapped, creating another dimension to the racism built into the Olympics. Steps could be taken to overcome this, for example by assigning standard equipment to competitors randomly, but this would not serve the interests of governments with a technological edge. 9. Spectatorship. Watching the Olympics serves to integrate spectators into the dominant value system of competitive striving for success. Under the guise of enjoying entertainment and supporting one's favourite team or athlete, spectators are inculcated with the assumptions that life is a competition, that the rules are fair, that most of the rewards go to the winners and that losers have only themselves to blame. These ideas are convenient for keeping workers on the usual treadmill. It is because of the similarities between competitive sport and business that sporting metaphors (``the level playing field'', ``scoring'') are so prevalent in non-sporting arenas. 10. Government repression. Olympic Games are sites of reduced civil liberties. Because of the vast audience and huge symbolic value of the Olympics, various groups try to make their case through disrupting the games, necessitating special laws and special policing to prevent disruption. Terrorists used the 1972 Munich Olympics as a stage. As the stakes become greater, so does the control over the opportunity to dissent. Strategies for change A. Reform the games. Various ideas have been presented to eliminate some of the problems. One is a permanent site such as Athens. This would remove the politics of site selection. Another is to have multiple sites for the games, so that the burden (financial and symbolic) on a single city would be reduced. Yet another is to have athletes represent only themselves and not represent countries. They could wear common uniforms. Team sports could be eliminated. This would reduce nationalist identification. These and other such ideas are good, but they are opposed by commercial and national interests and are unlikely to be introduced by the IOC, dominated as it is by these interests. B. Political struggle. Another approach is to accept the games as they are but to use them as a place for waging various campaigns. At the 1968 Mexico City Olympics, black sprinters on the victory stand gave a black power salute, with tremendous symbolic impact. Generally, though, this strategy is not very fruitful. It requires enormous efforts to become an Olympic athlete, yet opportunities to make political gestures are quite limited. The games do not provide a ``level playing field'' for political uses; governments and corporations have the greatest opportunities for using the games for their own purposes. C. Challenge the games. One approach is just to ignore the games. This sounds simple but can be quite significant if one's relatives or friends expect enthusiasm for the Olympic spectacle. Another approach is to actively oppose the games, for example by writing letters, circulating leaflets, holding protests, producing satires, boycotting commercial sponsors. This has the advantage of going beyond individual criticism. It would be hard to see quick results, though, given the global forces promoting the games. A third approach is to promote alternative games. In the 1920s and 1930s, there were workers' games which avoided much of the nationalism and upper-class bias of the Olympics. The problem with this strategy is that any games that become a real alternative are likely to be caught up in the same sorts of problems, such as commercialism, competition and spectatorship. A fourth approach is to promote cooperative games (games that are actually fun) and other alternatives for the psychosocial functions of sport. Some forms of drama and role play may accomplish this. Much more investigation, including practical testing, is needed into functional alternatives to competitive sport. Presently, though, far more money and effort are devoted to the bio-mechanics of swimming, improved tennis rackets and designer drugs for athletes than to cooperative games. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Stoke the Vote Date: Sun Jun 09 14:59:04 CDT 1996 Message number: 48 Reply to message number: unavailable From: PNEWS Subject: REVIEW: Manufacturing Electoral Success [*********PNEWS CONFERENCES************] From: Wojtek Sokolowski In his book _The Revolution of Nihilism_ Hermann Rauschning, a former high ranking nazi official who defected to the West shortly befor the outbreak of the World War II, described how the nazis effectively used fear to get themselves elected to public offices. The strategy of choice was to use fringe groups either loosely affilitaed to the nazi movement or with no affiliatin at all, to disturb public order to the degree that general public feel profoundly insecure. Then, the nazi pleas for "law and order" would fall on sympathetic ears and bring electoral success. Since the time this book was first published (1938), this electoral strategy of the right across the world has been documented in numerous studies. The strategy of manufactured electoral success for the right wing parties almost invariably relies on the following sequence: - first create social chaos by using propaganda or terrorist and other fringe groups to instill fear and sense of insecurity among the general public (the American right, for example, uses the fear of 'crime' which is the code word for "Blacks"); - then launch a campaignd appealing to that sense of insecurity and promise to correct the situation by "law and order" measures; - have a legitimate political group participate in an election to portray the draconian measures and positions espoused by the right as mainstream legitimate politics that have more appeal to the "middle class" voter. It looks like the same strategy worked for the Likud and the Israeli right. After all, the right wing reptile mentality based on fear and domination is the same everywhere -- be it Europe, America, Asia or Middle East. First, its propaganda spewing emoboldened the right wing fanatics to the point hat they felt that assassination is a legitimate political strategy. Then, a series of terrorists attacks created the climate of fear which Likud then exploited in their propaganda. As one Israeli voter commented on the NPR, Hamas won the Israeli election. It would not suprise me, if there were a connection between the Israeli right and its security apparatus, that stands to lose big if the peace breaks out, and the radical Arab terrorist groups. Perhaps not a direct cooperation but, say, hints sent through intermediaries saying "look, this conflict defines both you and us, and we hate the peace as much as you do. So if you decide to wage your holy war, well, we will look the other way for a while, for both you and we stand to gain if the Israeli society is terrorized." After all, burning the Reichstag by a radical anarchist worked for Adolf Hitler, and shelling their own people and then blaming it on the Serbs (as some UN onservers alleged) worked for the Bosnian government. No wonder that Mrs. Rabin feels like packing her suitcases and leaving. wojtek sokolowski johns hopkins university baltimore, md 21218 sokol@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Simplistic: Russian elections Date: Mon Jun 17 04:53:13 CDT 1996 Message number: 49 Reply to message number: unavailable NEWS COVERAGE OF RUSSIAN ELECTIONS: TOO SIMPLE By Norman Solomon / Creators Syndicate Long ago, Winston Churchill described Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." But present-day news coverage of the Russian elections has little room for complexity. The main story line resembles a wrestling match on American television. In one corner, wearing star-spangled trunks, Boris Yeltsin! In the other corner, wearing faded red trunks, Gennadi Zyuganov! The June 17 issue of Time magazine summed up the contest as "an election that pits an imperfect and often corrupt capitalism against nostalgia for Stalinist glories." Most U.S. media accounts share a similar outlook. What's missing from such stories? Plenty. For example: * Russian public health is a huge catastrophe. Since 1989, life expectancy for Russian males has plummeted from 65 to 58. New cases of diphtheria now occur at a yearly rate of 35,000. Today, according to Russia's official statistics, only 40 percent of babies are born healthy. "Any one of these numbers is a horror," says Georgetown University professor Murray Feshbach, a longtime specialist in Russian health. The CBS program "60 Minutes" aired a notable May 19 report on Russia's ongoing health disaster. But several weeks later, Feshbach observes, American journalists still generally treat it as a "non-issue." * During the last few years, touted "reforms" have done enormous harm. The usual media spin portrays Russia as a land in dire need of more "market reforms." Yet, they've already led to the ravaging of medical care, high unemployment and a plunge into poverty for 30 percent of the population. So-called reforms have shredded much of the Russian safety net. Many people feel desperate -- and yearn to regain a sense of security. But the American press is apt to ignore or belittle their desperation. In mid-June, a Time article simply depicted Zyuganov's constituency as "pensioners and those left out of the new, rambunctious Russian society." * Washington's "free market" agenda for Russia is designed to serve corporate interests, from oil to chickens to TV schlock. Atlantic Richfield recently announced plans to invest $3 billion in Russia and elsewhere in the former Soviet Union. Another oil company, Mobil, is financing a 900-mile pipeline to the Russian port on Novorossiysk. Since 1992, U.S. chicken exports to Russia have gone from near zero to well over $500 million a year. Russia is now the biggest overseas market for the Tyson Foods poultry firm, owned by Don Tyson, an early supporter of Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential bid. Tyson also contributes frequently to congressional campaigns. Starting this fall, Russians will be able to eat chicken while watching "Dallas" -- dubbed in Russian -- on television five nights a week. Handling ad sales for 357 episodes, media brokers boast that the show "will rivet viewers throughout Russia." * In Russia for the past half-decade, corruption and privatization have gone hand in hand. The rush to privatize has made a few Russians fabulously wealthy. The corruption is extreme. Formerly state-owned natural resources worth tens of billions of dollars -- such as vast reserves of oil, natural gas and metals -- now belong to a coterie of well-connected Russian bankers, swindlers and industrialists. Overall, much of the reporting we get from Russia is skewed by assumptions at U.S. news organizations. "From what I've seen, they still have that Cold War chip on their shoulder," says the Moscow correspondent for Canadian Press service, Fred Weir, who has lived in Russia for 10 years. "They tend to see everything in terms of the struggle between good democrats and nasty commies." When I reached him in Moscow a few days ago, Weir said he was "appalled at the way the Western media have accepted, with only mild hand-wringing, the total, Soviet-like domination of the Russian media by the Yeltsin administration." Ironically, Yeltsin's media control is "excused, even defended, by many Western journalists" -- whose attitudes are "doing more to undermine freedom of the press in Russia than anything Zyuganov would be likely to do if he became president." While disdaining Zyuganov as a wooden Communist ideologue, many U.S. reporters and pundits bring an equally rigid ideology to their coverage of Russia. When journalists so often equate democratic change with "economic reforms" favored by Western banks and the U.S. government, independent thinking is in short supply. ------------------------------------------------------------ Help get "Media Beat" in your newspaper!!! Send e-mail to for more information. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: The Saudi Explosion Date: Sun Jul 07 16:57:10 CDT 1996 Message number: 50 Reply to message number: unavailable ------------------------- Via Workers World News Service Reprinted from the July 11, 1996 issue of Workers World newspaper ------------------------- SAUDI ARABIA: IS A BIGGER EXPLOSION STILL AHEAD? By Andy McInerney As the dust settles after the June 25 bombing of a U.S. military base in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, one thing is clear: U.S. imperialism's grip on the Gulf region is neither welcomed nor secure. Beneath the pro-U.S. regimes in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region, mass anti- imperialist opposition is bubbling to the surface. Nineteen U.S. soldiers were killed in the Dhahran bombing; over 500 people, mostly from the United States, were wounded. While the people or group that carried out the bombing have not been identified, it is widely assumed to have been carried out by opponents of the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia and of the U.S.-backed King Fahd regime. Over 5,000 U.S. troops are stationed in Saudi Arabia. The biggest air base is at Dhahran. From there, since the 1991 Gulf War against Iraq, 30 to 50 flights a day have patrolled Iraqi air space in violation of that nation's sovereignty. Another 35,000 U.S. citizens work in various auxiliary functions for the massive Saudi Arabian oil industry. These U.S. nationals live apart from the Saudi population in elaborate complexes, with luxuries unknown to most of Saudi Arabia's 17 million people. But the U.S. role in Saudi Arabia far surpasses the 40,000 U.S. nationals in the country. Billions of dollars in oil profits, nominally controlled by state-owned Aramco, flow through U.S. banks. The Fahd regime is thoroughly entwined with the Pentagon. In the 1980s, Saudi Arabia spent $28 billion on U.S.- supplied military goods and services. The June 30 New York Times reported that by 1993, Saudi military orders totaled what the Pentagon itself spent that year on major weapons systems. This military aid has a political as well as a financial cost. Over the past 20 years, the Fahd regime has served as a U.S. proxy in the Middle East, giving essential financial and military support to various movements fighting revolutionary governments in Ethiopia, Afghanistan and Yemen. During the 1991 Gulf War, Saudi Arabia not only served as a forward base for the hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops invading Iraq. The Saudi government was forced to foot the $120 billion bill for the U.S. adventure. More recently, Saudi Arabia gave $50 million to outfit the pro-U.S. Bosnian army. Those costs, combined with the worldwide capitalist overproduction of oil that has cut oil prices in half, have taken a heavy toll on Saudi Arabia's population. The per capita income in Saudi Arabia has dropped from $14,000 to $4,000 a year since 1982, according to Palestinian-American Said Aburish, quoted in the June 27 Wall Street Journal. Aburish also estimated that 25 percent of Saudi youths are unemployed. Seventy-five percent of the Saudi population is under 30 years old. The economic crisis has also hit the regime itself. The Saudi regime was once accorded a degree of independence by soaring oil prices. Now the regime--based in the 10,000- member ruling family--has gone from a creditor to a debtor. In 1993, the government announced that it would not be able to make its loan payments on time. This social crisis is the fuel for both the Dhahran bombing and the bombing that killed five U.S. soldiers in the capital Riyadh last November. U.S. RESPONSE The U.S. government has had to measure its response to the bombing. Washington weighs the Saudi regime's importance in U.S. dominance of the Middle East against the King Fahd monarchy's utter fragility. U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry said categorically on June 29: "We will not be driven out of Saudi Arabia. We will not be intimidated." "There are places in the world where our national interest is in doubt," said Ray Mabus, U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia until recently. "This isn't one of them. "That's because of the impact oil has on the world economy and on our economy. We went to war over that principle." At the same time, articles have appeared in most bourgeois newspapers questioning the stability of the Fahd regime. As if to maintain some distance between the United States and the regime, some in the U.S. military have found space to criticize the Saudi Arabian government. For example, a Defense Department official told the June 28 New York Times that Saudi cooperation with U.S. intelligence services after the November bombing in Riyadh was "far less than we had hoped." The FBI complained that the Saudis had refused to allow its agents to interrogate the four men accused of--and eventually beheaded for--the attack. Despite these feeble protests, U.S. imperialism has little alternative to the Fahd monarchy in Saudi Arabia--short of a complete occupation of the country. Saudi Arabia represents only one in a list of "weak links" in imperialism's chain in the region. Rebellions and bombings have rocked the neighboring island emirate of Bahrain, fueled by similar social discontent and anti- imperialist sentiment. Declining living standards have fueled uprisings in Iranian cities. And battle lines continue to harden in Palestine. Similar crises are always met in the U.S. big-business media with a wave of anti-Arab racism. As the fires of rebellion spread through the Middle East and Gulf region, a determined fight against chauvinism and a clear call for an end to U.S. imperialist domination of the Middle East--including complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from the region--will advance U.S. workers' interests. - END - (Copyright Workers World Service: Permission to reprint granted if source is cited. For more information contact Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011; via e-mail: ww@wwpublish.com. For subscription info send message to: ww-info@wwpublish.com. Web: http://www.workers.org) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Airports Failing Security Date: Thu Aug 22 18:02:27 CDT 1996 Message number: 51 Reply to message number: unavailable SNS News Service "Airports' Failing Security" August 7, 1996.. 22 Av 5756 Special Report -021sr ************************** The Set Up *********************************** A "handicapped" passenger, David Suliman, a journalist for Yediot Achronot, Israel's leading daily newspaper, passes airport security without being detected. David played a handicapped traveler who was bound to a wheelchair. He passed through security in Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport and France's Charles DeGaulle Airport undetected. He carried a fake handgun and explosive device in a pillow of his wheelchair. Following the explosion of TWA Flight 800, in New York, Yediot decided to check airport security and attempt to smuggle a weapon and explosives, that could be used in the detonation or hijacking of a plane, on board a commercial flight. It was decided to test the security of Israel's Ben Gurion Airport and a foreign airport, as well. DeGaulle was chosen. ************************** The Plan ************************************ The Yediot employee posed as a handicapped traveler in a wheelchair. In the seat cushion of the wheelchair, a fake handgun and explosive device were hidden. The glue gun was made of both plastic and metal and was the size and shape of a regular hand gun. The explosive device was the case of a metallic alarm clock with its inside removed. ************************* Ben Gurion *********************************** At Ben Gurion Airport, the handicapped passenger was questioned, as are all passengers, while he checked-in his baggage. He was then wheeled by an airport staff member to the x-ray machine. Both the passenger and his wheelchair were not checked by the x-ray or metal detection equipment. This including the "boobytrapped" pillow on the wheelchair. At this point, one must realize that this passenger will pass through the final security check and be cleared to board a commercial flight. This is the "heart" of the security network of the airport. There are no additional security checks past this point. The handicapped passenger got on El Al Flight 323, from Israel to Paris, together with his handgun and explosive device. *********************** Charles DeGaulle ******************************* On his return flight, traveling with Air France, he succeeded in boarding his flight with his boobytrapped pillow, once again. According to officials, he was to have undergone a body search. This was not carried out in Israel or France. Following the Yediot mission, the newspaper contacted Air France, El Al and the Port Authority for a response. ***************************** El AL ************************************* El Al Airlines is not responsible for security in airports and passed the question to the appropriate security agencies. **************************** Air France ********************************* Air France stated it is not responsible for security in the Charles DeGaulle International Airport. It is the responsibility of airport security officials. ******************* Israel Airports Authority **************************** This case does not teach us or show anything, except for the fact that an Israeli broke the law. We are not willing to search the pages of a newspaper to obtain methods to protect our airport. Our [security] work will continue in an orderly and professional manner, which entails the spotting of a real terrorists, not a journalist who broke the law. (Yediot Achronot Newspaper..8/7..Pages..Front and 7). Posted here for informational purposes in compliance with FAIR USE DOCTRINE. Originally appearing in YEDIOT ACHRONOT newspaper 8/7. *********************************************** ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: All Subject: East Jerusalem Date: Mon Mar 24 01:46:22 CST 1997 Message number: 52 Reply to message number: unavailable What do others think of the situation in Israel? A couple of weeks ago, I saw Netanahu (sp?) on a talking heads show claiming that Israel was building those new houses on the West Bank for Palestininans as well as Jews. But the Palestinians claim that is Palestinian territory and do not want more Jews to move there at all. It seems to me that Israel is at fault, here, and the US always seems to support Israel, no matter what they do. For example, there is already documentation that in the Arab West Bank, Jews are seizing arab houses and forcing the inhabitants out of the houses and out of the city entirely. What do others think about this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: East Jerusalem Date: Tue Mar 25 03:17:09 CST 1997 Message number: 53 Reply to message number: 52 F> What do others think of the situation in Israel? I haven't paid that much attention to it, but my general take on the Middle-East is that we are too uncritical in our support of Israel and too quick to criticize the Arab nations. For example, Iran is pissed because we supported the Shah, their authoritarian ruler for many years. And here we are, peeved because some Chinese businessmen might have slipped Clinton a few bucks? I mean shit, we supported their dictator with weapons and money. I'd be angry too. Israel is the 200-pound gorilla, and we're the 20,000-pound gorilla. Since we support them, they can get away with things no other country could. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: East Jerusalem Date: Tue Mar 25 05:45:42 CST 1997 Message number: 54 Reply to message number: 53 DR> I haven't paid that much attention to it, but my general take on the DR> Middle-East is that we are too uncritical in our support of Israel and too DR> quick to criticize the Arab nations. DR> DR> Israel is the 200-pound gorilla, and we're the 20,000-pound gorilla. Since DR> support them, they can get away with things no other country could. This is how I see it, too. I rubbed my eyes in disbelief as Clinton's henchman argued on TV this morning that the PLO should control their terrorists. Yet, Israel is busy as a beaver buliding yet more housing in The Palestinians land. Where are the henchmen about this? I was first sensitized to this about 35 years ago, when a Quaker friend of mine talkied about it. He had served some 1-AO time in the Palestinian resettlement camps. He said that at the time that Israel was granted nationhood, part of the agreement was that all the Palestinians displaced by incoming Jews would be resettled into acceptable housing. Now, after all that time, many Palestinins are still living in canvas tents in the desert. Others have settled in areas like West Jerusalem and are being oppressed. I think it is a travesty. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: FROGGY Subject: Re: East Jerusalem Date: Sun Mar 30 03:17:26 CST 1997 Message number: 55 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Froggy : DR> Israel is the 200-pound gorilla, and we're the 20,000-pound gorilla. Sin DR> support them, they can get away with things no other country could. Fr> Fr> This is how I see it, too. I rubbed my eyes in disbelief as Fr> Clinton's henchman argued on TV this morning that the PLO should Fr> control their terrorists. Yet, Israel is busy as a beaver buliding yet Fr> more housing in The Palestinians land. Where are the henchmen about Fr> this? Isreal allows us to "control" the region. To put it more diplomatically, their military strength (supported by us) allows us to maintain a foothold in the region, a vital source of oil. Thus, we give them a wide berth. Fr> He said that at the time that Israel Fr> was granted nationhood, part of the agreement was that all the Fr> Palestinians displaced by incoming Jews would be resettled into Fr> acceptable housing. Now, after all that time, many Palestinins are Fr> still living in canvas tents in the desert. Shhh, someone might get ideas. If we could define "acceptable housing" as a tent, someone might get loopy. ... If voting really effected change, it would be illegal. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: East Jerusalem Date: Sun Mar 30 03:57:24 CST 1997 Message number: 56 Reply to message number: 55 DR> Fr> He said that at the time that Israel DR> Fr> was granted nationhood, part of the agreement was that all the DR> Fr> Palestinians displaced by incoming Jews would be resettled into DR> Fr> acceptable housing. Now, after all that time, many Palestinins are DR> Fr> still living in canvas tents in the desert. DR> DR> Shhh, someone might get ideas. If we could define "acceptable housing" DR> as a tent, someone might get loopy. DR> Not to change the topic, but a couple of American sheriffs have already said that tents in the desert are acceptable housing for convicts. At least they are convicted, though. Most of the palestinians have done nothing wrong, and most of them were BORN in tents. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: FROGGY Subject: East Jerusalem Date: Wed Apr 02 14:36:38 CST 1997 Message number: 57 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Froggy to All <=- Fr> What do others think of the situation in Israel? A couple of weeks Fr> ago, I saw Netanahu (sp?) on a talking heads show claiming that Israel Fr> was building those new houses on the West Bank for Palestininans as Fr> well as Jews. But the Palestinians claim that is Palestinian territory Fr> and do not want more Jews to move there at all. It seems to me that Fr> Israel is at fault, here, and the US always seems to support Israel, no Fr> matter what they do. For example, there is already documentation that Fr> in the Arab West Bank, Jews are seizing arab houses and forcing the Fr> inhabitants out of the houses and out of the city entirely. What do Fr> others think about this? Bebe is the same type of politician as Newt is in this country. The conservative Lidkud party opposes peace. Bebe Netanyahu opposes peace. The orthodox religious sects oppose peace. Hamas opposes peace. Iran opposes peace. The Christian Right in the US opposes peace. There will be no peace in Israel and if ..ahhh, when war comes America will have to defend Israel. This is all about land and who will own it. Interesting that some jewish organization is declaring that certain Jewish organizations (reform & conservative) are not and should not be considered Jewish. Israel has a secular government and a secular society. Elements within the Lidkud party are waging a war to impose their religious agenda on the entire population of Israel. These are the same elements trying to declare who is a Jew and who isn't. With this attack on the secular institutions in Israel,the attempt to kick certain jews out of the "fold", and the great land grab that are happening in Israel is appears that Israel is moving towards a great purge in their society. A purging of people and freedoms that could put very conservative religious groups in power. These religious groups have "God on their side" and could very well charge blindly into a war which would drag the US into it. Again it is all about land. Who has it and who owns it. Purge a bunch of liberal jews from Israel and there will be more land for the zealots. Kick a bunch of palestinians out of their lands and even more land is available for zealots. More breeding sites for zealots mean more zealots. Of course groups like Hamas have a similar agenda. Maybe this is the answer: Toss those opposed to the peace process into the middle of the desert to fight it out. While those who support peace can do their best to slowly bring it about. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Sandman Subject: Re: East Jerusalem Date: Wed Apr 02 19:33:37 CST 1997 Message number: 58 Reply to message number: 57 S> Maybe this is the answer: Toss those opposed to the peace process S> into the middle of the desert to fight it out. S> While those who support peace can do their best to slowly bring it S> about. S> This makes sense to me, but that is not how it works. What is happening is that the US is drawn in to support Israel no matter what they do. DR says it is because of oil interests, but I am not so sure. If oil were all there were to it, I would support the Arabs, not Israel. If you are right about the conflict in Israel and Israel eventually disintegrating, it will be very interesting to see what the US does. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: East Jerusalem Date: Sun Apr 06 15:53:20 CDT 1997 Message number: 59 Reply to message number: 58 S> Maybe this is the answer: Toss those opposed to the peace process S> into the middle of the desert to fight it out. S> While those who support peace can do their best to slowly bring it S> about. S> F> This makes sense to me, but that is not how it works. What is F> happening is that the US is drawn in to support Israel no matter what they d F> DR says it is because of oil interests, but I am not so sure. If oil were a Oil drew them there. Oil holds them there. But as in anything else, power tends to create its own justification. Why are we still in Japan? Germany? Cuba? Because inertia and powerful interests hold us there. Not because of logic or reason. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Fascists!!!!!!!!!!! [1/2] Date: Sun Apr 27 19:42:22 CDT 1997 Message number: 60 Reply to message number: unavailable >>> Part 1 of 2... Ä Area: PNEWS ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: Rougi@ptialaska.net Read: Yes Replied: No Subj: [PN] A Spade A Spade ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: prudence Organization: church of divine nonchalance Subject: [PN] A Spade A Spade * what about calling a 'spade' a 'spade'... * Fascism in our midst Craig Stockdale With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout Europe and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to the presence of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September 1993, Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a council seat in East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he increased his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists as a bunch of skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than then on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs' does hold true for the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by small cliques of, unfortunately, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi revival is not just a mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter, 1996), but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway majority opinion. How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in a Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most importantly, by not appearing to be Nazi in origin. In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the American Nazi Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that: "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the mire of the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he had not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British public were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must hide behind the Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to go public with a mass Nazi movement (John Tyndall quoted in Gable, 1991). Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall direction of social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring themselves to be openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around that time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel symbol, and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various Nazi organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using patriotism to get a 'foot in the door' whilst maintaining good relations with other secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad. Here we can see evident two of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The first is that of Consistancy. A minority that remains consistant in it's argument is more likely to influence a majority, than one that is inconsistant. The Neo-Fascists remain undaunted in their convictions that events such as the holocaust did not happen, their racist views and especially their anti-Semitism have lead Nazi Revisionists such as David Irving, for who the BNP supply 'bodyguards', to publish articles and books in an attempt to rewrite a history that is against them. In BNP literature a study by none other than Hans Eysenck that appears to support the belief that whites are more intelligent than blacks, is constantly referred to without reference to criticisms of Eysencks methodology, or reference to counter-arguments or alternative interpretations of the data. Labov's (1970) study into 'Black English' is a good example of how scientists can interpret data incorrectly. Labov (1970) and Stewart (1970) both pointed out that many Afro-Americans speak a grammatically different form of English. Since IQ tests are administered in Standard English, the lower scores of Afro-Americans (which could be perceived as due to lower intelligence) are probably due to their different dialect. There are far more general arguments, especially in recent years, rejecting the validity of IQ tests and other psychometric testing altogether. Some psychologists, such as Gardener (1983), with his theory of multiple intelligence suggests that poor performance on IQ tests could merely signify the absence or presence of specific types of intelligence. Also, interpretations of intelligence test results are now considered relative to specific cultural context. Native Americans and Indians place greater importance on certainty, and would rather answer 'I don't know' or 'I'm not sure' to a question if they are not absolutely certain of the answer. In Western culture, we are more likely to 'have a guess' (Sinha 1983, Triandis 1989). However, your average Neo-Fascist won't give two hoots about scientific argument unless the conclusion supports his existing belief. The ideology comes first and the Neo-Fascist looks for anything to back it up, no matter how trivial, unreliable or discredited. Although many would think that Fascism died in 1945, the ideology lives still and those who adhere to it show no sign of relinquishing their grip. Clinging to a universally reviled ideology with negligible academic support seems wonderfully demonstrative of both behavioural consistancy and ideological rigidity. The second behavioural style is the presence of a seemingly flexible argumentative technique. Attempts are made to rationalise their beliefs and portray them as truth. They take real-life problems that genuinely concern people, like unemployment and housing shortages, and supply answers that are both in line with their xenophobic and homophobic opinions and which seem sensible to somebody who doesn't know better. It is easy to be fooled. For example: In an area with high unemployment, a shortage of affordable housing and a minority of immigrant workers, the Fascist would have you believe that "the immigrants are stealing our jobs and houses". I am of course, talking about Tower Hamlets on the Isle of Dogs in East London. Local residents were lead into voting for the Derek Beackon of the BNP, who put forward such an argument, purely because they were not supplied with a counter argument. In fact, in the Tower Hamlets area, 980 luxury properties in the ill-fated Canary Wharf lie empty as they are privately owned and over-priced (Personal communication from ANL volunteer). National unemployment ins approaching 10% yet only 2% of the population are immigrants or refugees. Exactly how are 2% of the population (many of which are also unemployed) supposed to steal the jobs of 10% of the British populace? Even an elementary argument like this, based on statistics and simple mathematics, holds no sway over the BNP. I have not come across any attempt to address this criticism in BNP literature. The NF or the BNP (they change their name often, in order to throw of negative associations) display a public face of flexible, rational patriotism. Proclaiming that they only want what's best for their country, they deny that they have a Nazi agenda. Should they seem dogmatic or rigid they risk lessening their ability to influence the majority or actually dividing the majority, gaining a few conversions but forcing the majority view further to the opposite extreme. This phenomenon is called Bi-polarization and can result when a minority argues in a rigid as opposed to flexible manner. Although in an Orthodox minority (whose views are in line with prevailing norms, or zietgiest) such as environmentalism, a rigid argumentative style is the more helpful, in a Heterodox minority (whose opinions are against prevailing norms) such as Neo-Fascist beliefs, a flexible argumentative style is more effective (Mugny and Papastamou 1975-6) and this is what we see displayed in Nazi style outfits. I now turn to behavioural styles less often displayed, practised or perceived in Neo-Fascist organisations. The first of these is Investment (Moscovici's term). A minority that is perceived to be making a personal sacrifice for their cause will be viewed in a better light and probably be more convincing than a minority who have little to lose or something to gain from promulgating their views. This issue is a little more difficult as the concepts of loss and gain are fuzzy. By adhering to their views, Neo-Fascists do not appear to be making any great sacrifice. Exactly how these organisations are funded and the amount of work they place on individual members is not known for sure. The BNP are secretive about such matters, but there is evidence of support from extreme right-wing members of the conservative party, and other 'respectable' patrons (ANL, 1996). However, when it comes to personal sacrifice it looks like the average member of the BNP subscribes to Spearhead and occasionally turns up for racist rallies, such as the anniversary of Rudolph Hess' death, which is commemorated each year by Nazi's world-wide. Great fun. All in all, the perception, if not the actual investment of individuals is low. Perhaps if Neo-Fascist organisations were seen to be surrendering something for their cause, rather than acting out of self-interest their message would be more persuasive. The final behavioural style I shall look at is Autonomy. This ties in with the theme of self-interest. Evidence leads us to believe that a minority acting out of principle alone is more effective at swaying majority opinion than a minority that is seen to be gaining something from promulgating a cause (Moscovici, 1976). the example given by Brown (1988), is that of a famous personality endorsing an unpopular campaign. They will be more credible if we are certain that they are not being paid large sums of money for appearing. The BNP although not openly seen as receiving any financial gain, are nevertheless perceived as gaining something from distributing their hatred-endorsing message. They are perceived by the majority as acting out of self-interest and misplaced confidence in a primitive belief system. Finally, I think something should be said about how Neo-Fascist parties have been allowed to creep in at the corners of the political arena in recent years. After the war, Nazi ideology was not something you admitted to holding, but nevertheless, isolated groups of individuals remained loyal to Hitler's warped beliefs. A natural progression occurred throughout the post-war years as through communication of ideas, Nazism made the transition from an Anomic minority, a loose collection of individuals with no structure or commitment, to a Nomic minority. An organised, structured group with internal norms and a strong commitment. The Nazi's capitalised on the growing level of immigration and the economic recession and blamed the latter on the former. People's ignorance of the global economic situation and other external reasons for the rising level of unemployment and the upward march of inflation, allowed the Nazi's to get a 'foot in the door' with their "phoney patriotic jargon" as their own leader put it. Although, thankfully, the media (doing something good for a change) alerted many of us to the presence of Fascist ideals in our midst, for a moment the climate was just right for a Fascist revival. Hopefully, the Zietgiest, the overall direction of social norms, has reversed, and we can continue to work towards a hate-free society. Bibliography Anti Nazi League (1995-6) Newsletters, Anti Nazi League. Billig, M (1978) Fascists: a social psychological view of the National Front London: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. Brown, R (1988) Group Processes Blackwell. >>> Continued to next message... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Fascists!!!!!!!!!!! [2/2] Date: Sun Apr 27 19:42:23 CDT 1997 Message number: 61 Reply to message number: unavailable >>> Part 2 of 2... Cheles, L; Ferguson, R and Vaughan, M (1991) Neo Fascism in Europe New York: Longman. Glietman, H (1995) Psychology New York: Norton. Loehlin, JC; Lindzey, G and Spuhler, JN (1975) Race Differences in Intelligence San Fransisco: WH Freeman and Co. Pearson, R (1991) Race, Intelligence and Bias in Academe Washington: Scott Townshend Pub. Associated Links Nazism Exposed The best link i have found thus far. Antifascist Web Loads of images on this page, so it's a bit slow to load. BNP Homepage Be warned: There is an unbelievable amount of Racist crap on this page. Most of it is extremely offensive to anyone with half a brain. Copyright 1996 Craig Stockdale -!- ! Origin: Usenet :church of divine nonchalance (1:343/70) ... This tagline is made just for All ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Hong Kong Date: Tue Apr 29 17:31:35 CDT 1997 Message number: 62 Reply to message number: unavailable I have a lot to say on this one, but I don't want to jump in just yet ... I'm curious, what do you all think about the transfer of Hong Kong( back to the Chinese. Does it make sense to you? What do you think is going to happen? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Hong Kong Date: Wed Apr 30 15:51:59 CDT 1997 Message number: 63 Reply to message number: 62 DR> curious, what do you all think about the transfer of Hong Kong( back to the DR> Chinese. Does it make sense to you? What do you think is going to happen? The only sense it makes to me is that it is being done by treaty. I think things are likely to go one of 2 ways: 1, Not being stupid, China will recognize thst HK is a good thing, lay off of it, and enjoy the wealth it brings ub. 2. Being stupid, China will follow its historical past and oppress them, and wonder why they aren't so profitable any more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: Hong Kong Date: Mon May 05 09:28:51 CDT 1997 Message number: 64 Reply to message number: 63 F> The only sense it makes to me is that it is being done by treaty. F> think things are likely to go one of 2 ways: F> F> 1, Not being stupid, China will recognize thst HK is a good F> thing, lay off of it, and enjoy the wealth it brings ub. F> F> 2. Being stupid, China will follow its historical past and F> oppress them, and wonder why they aren't so profitable any more. I'm hardly an expert on Hong Kong, but I can pretty much predict two things: neither of those possibilities will come true. While it's very logical to assume that either Hong Kong will become a honeypot or a Tienamen Square, it's not very realistic. I believe that Hong Kong will become the capitalist/banking center of the new China. The wealthy businessmen and the upper-middle class will all be bought off: anyone who does not cooperate with China and buy into its power and its laws will be put out of business. This is happening now. The Chinese will not invade Hong Kong, they will buy off the city's leaders and cow and control the population. And I believe that they will be successful. Contrary to what Clintona and Dole/Bush believe, I don't think that free trade and capitalism necessarily lead to democracy. China will probably become a prime example of that, with the leadership "evolving" from Communist authoritarians into Capitalist authoritarians. They pay lip service to the same goals, but in the end the only thing that remaisn the same is their power structure.